listening to, drinking, and misc...

[Tony Scharf]

In most instances there is at least one listener - the composer.  And
if the listener inside the composer decides its not music then...

Tony

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 11:08 PM, James R. Coplin <james at ticalun.net> wrote:
> This is getting into the realm where I wanted to go on AH.  Wherein lies the
> agency?  Your line of thinking is that there is some sort of negotiation
> that goes on between the composer and the listener that once crossed,
> becomes music.  So, before the listener "appreciates" it, is it music?  If
> your kazoo playing and toaster minuet is panned by critics and listeners
> alike, it is not music you say.  For the moment let's say I agree.  However,
> what if at some later point listeners suddenly latch onto your piece and
> "appreciate" it?  Now it's music?  What was it before that moment?  Just
> noise?
>
> First, I'm not using "appreciate" in any cheeky way, I put it quotes as I'm
> using it in a fairly subjective way.  Secondly, the question I have is if
> this is the case, then music is entirely the agency of the listener, not the
> composer - it lies completely in the ear of the beholder.  I don't know that
> I can argue persuasively against this since as an academic, I'm kind of
> infected with post-modern nonsense and understand this position a little too
> well.  However, it does leave wide open the question of meaning and agency
> on the part of the composer.  Most disturbingly, it means that nothing I
> create will ever be as musical as "new kids on the block" as the listeners
> have spoken with their "appreciation" of this music in an overwhelming
> fashion.  Is there any meaning (and consequently value) for the
> composer/creator other than as a persuader of the value/legitimacy of your
> music.  It kind of turns the artist into marketer.  I think this very
> construction lies at the problem in pretty much all modern art any longer.
>
> James R. Coplin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: music-bar-bounces at lists.music-bar.org
> [mailto:music-bar-bounces at lists.music-bar.org] On Behalf Of Tony Scharf
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:15 PM
> To: Music-bar
> Subject: Re: listening to, drinking, and misc...
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:08 PM, James R. Coplin <james at ticalun.net> wrote:
>>
>> Last week a discussion cropped up on Analogue Heaven which the Admins
>> shutdown just as it was starting to become interesting.  I’ll bring it up
>> here as there is a better and more tolerant audience.  What distinguishes
>> music from noise?  Where is the line and what does that line mean?
>>
>
> I only lurk on AH, and post very rarely...so now is my chance to chime
> in on this.
>
> I dont think its a like, but a circle.  No..two circles.  anything
> inside the circle is music, anything outside the circle is noise.  One
> circle is the listeners and the other is the other is the composers.
> where the two circles overlap is where the music is.
>
> As to what makes something music and something else noise, I really
> think its the listener.  If I make a racket, and no one thinks its
> music but me...it isnt.  but if I can convince even one soul that
> banging on a toaster oven while playing a kazoo is music, then it is.
>
> Tony
>
> Tony
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