listening to, drinking, and misc...

[James R. Coplin]

This is getting into the realm where I wanted to go on AH.  Wherein lies the
agency?  Your line of thinking is that there is some sort of negotiation
that goes on between the composer and the listener that once crossed,
becomes music.  So, before the listener "appreciates" it, is it music?  If
your kazoo playing and toaster minuet is panned by critics and listeners
alike, it is not music you say.  For the moment let's say I agree.  However,
what if at some later point listeners suddenly latch onto your piece and
"appreciate" it?  Now it's music?  What was it before that moment?  Just
noise?  

First, I'm not using "appreciate" in any cheeky way, I put it quotes as I'm
using it in a fairly subjective way.  Secondly, the question I have is if
this is the case, then music is entirely the agency of the listener, not the
composer - it lies completely in the ear of the beholder.  I don't know that
I can argue persuasively against this since as an academic, I'm kind of
infected with post-modern nonsense and understand this position a little too
well.  However, it does leave wide open the question of meaning and agency
on the part of the composer.  Most disturbingly, it means that nothing I
create will ever be as musical as "new kids on the block" as the listeners
have spoken with their "appreciation" of this music in an overwhelming
fashion.  Is there any meaning (and consequently value) for the
composer/creator other than as a persuader of the value/legitimacy of your
music.  It kind of turns the artist into marketer.  I think this very
construction lies at the problem in pretty much all modern art any longer.

James R. Coplin

-----Original Message-----
From: music-bar-bounces at lists.music-bar.org
[mailto:music-bar-bounces at lists.music-bar.org] On Behalf Of Tony Scharf
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:15 PM
To: Music-bar
Subject: Re: listening to, drinking, and misc...

On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:08 PM, James R. Coplin <james at ticalun.net> wrote:
>
> Last week a discussion cropped up on Analogue Heaven which the Admins
> shutdown just as it was starting to become interesting.  I’ll bring it up
> here as there is a better and more tolerant audience.  What distinguishes
> music from noise?  Where is the line and what does that line mean?
>

I only lurk on AH, and post very rarely...so now is my chance to chime
in on this.

I dont think its a like, but a circle.  No..two circles.  anything
inside the circle is music, anything outside the circle is noise.  One
circle is the listeners and the other is the other is the composers.
where the two circles overlap is where the music is.

As to what makes something music and something else noise, I really
think its the listener.  If I make a racket, and no one thinks its
music but me...it isnt.  but if I can convince even one soul that
banging on a toaster oven while playing a kazoo is music, then it is.

Tony

Tony
_______________________________________________
music-bar mailing list
music-bar at lists.music-bar.org
http://lists.music-bar.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/music-bar