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<div class="moz-text-flowed" style="font-size: 15px;" lang="x-unicode">Thanks
to Joost for pointing out this hadn't gone to the list. Which I'm glad
about because it was full of early morning typos made worse by the fact
that the keyboard on my laptop seems to be failing. In any event, my
long winded thoughts on the Axe-FX and other Fractal Audio products
below...<br>
<br>
The Axe-FX is brilliant at what it does, but what it does is aimed
squarely at performing guitarists and not studio work. So, keep this in
mind with my criticisms. Fractal Audio has decided and positioned its
products for performing guitarists so my complaints/critique are from a
perspective of using a piece of gear in a way that Fractal does not
really say it is suited for. The Axe-FX is not advertised or marketed as
a studio multiFX - and I think the distinction is important as you can't
really fail at something you don't claim to do in the first place.
Bottom line, the unit is amazing at what it does, but if you want to use
it as a more general purpose studio fx, there are fairly significant
limitations and problems. Also, we are well into the realm of subjective
opinion when it comes to algorithm quality so this is entirely my
subjective opinion and may very well not be your experience or opinion
which is cool. So here is my long winded take down on the Axe-FX, a unit
I love and also want to punch in the face sometimes.
<br>
<br>The first immediate problem is IO or lack thereof. The Axe-FX has
*8*
analog ins and out. 4 stereo sets, each available individually in the
signal chain, and you can loop in and out of the unit to your hearts
content to incorporate any external pedals etc you have around. That's
all well and good on stage with a bunch of pedals, amps, etc. In the
studio though, its all about digital IO and this is where the Axe-FX
fails pretty miserably. 1 AES or SPDIF in. 1. It is also maxed at 48k
sample rates. By comparison, the H8000fw came out in 2005 and had 8
digital ins and outs in AES (both DB25 and XLR connectors), ADAT,
S/PDIF, and even Firewire. All except the S/PDIF were up to 96k. The
Orville which predates the H8000 by several years at least had 2 AES.
The Kurzweil KSP8 of the same era also has 8 digital ins and outs in all
flavors. So, not
to put to fine a point on it, the Axe-FX digital IO was behind the times
17 years ago and is massively inadequate now. This is especially true
given the sheer DSP power of the unit, it leads to real lopsided
capability versus accessibility unless you stay in the analog realm. It
would be very hard to impossible to utilize all the DSP of it on a
single set of digital ins. The short outcome of this is that if you want
to keep all
your sends digital in the studio, you are going have to use the Axe-FX
as a single processor which already severely limits it. Secondly, you
are going to have you project at 48k or you are going to need some sort
of a converter. The Axe-FX does have a USB interface but I found it
insufficient as well. First off, I already have my main interfaces and I
don't want to have to run aggregate or ASIO/4All drivers to mix and
match. I also found the performance of the USB to be inconsistent and
fiddly to work with. All of this is really a shame because a more robust
set of digital IO would push this device into more studios. But, to be
fair, Fractal has not positioned the Axe-FX as a studio piece so I get
it
why digital IO isn't a priority. It irritates and saddens me but I get
it.
This also makes it extremely expensive. It would be cheaper, and more
capable, to purchase 2 of Fractal's cheaper FM-3 units so you could at
least run 2 stereo chains digitally. You would lose some algorithms, and
a good bit of power but would actually be able to utilize more DSP
overall than a single digital chain in the Axe-FX 3.<br>
<br>If we look at the quality of the algorithms, its also a bit of a
mixed
bag. For anything "guitary" - amps, cabs, pedal emulations, etc. it is
absolutely, hands down, stunning. Period. I've had the crankiest, purist
guitar guys in the studio use it and come away with a changed attitude
about digital emulations. I can't praise it enough in this area. Even
using the "clean" amps and cabs, a boring synth or wheezy part can sound
amazing and alive. I never really understood the big deal about amps and
cabs until I had the Axe-FX. I had always used distortion pedals and
things for that and so I though distortion was a fairly static effect.
It wasn't until the Axe-FX I got to experience the breathing and
interaction between volume and frequency and how distortions can move
around and live in the signal. It was eye opening. If you want this, and
you should, the Fractal products are amazing. If the Axe-FX is out of
your budget, the FM-3 is killer and for a synth person should be a must
buy. I have an FM-3 on my Rhodes and it is on my playing out rig. The
Axe-FX stays in the studio.
Seriously though, go get a FM-3. It's the cost of 2 nice pedals and
offers way more capability in that price point than anything I can think
of. Fractal should make either a single space rack or a smaller format
desktop unit of the FM-3 aimed at synth and home studio people. Give it
two stereo analog inputs and it would be gold. It has a mono in and a
stereo in which is a bit annoying. Should have been 2 stereo but I
digress.<br>
<br>Once we leave the guitar realm though, things are decidedly less
great. The quality
of the algorithms vary, I'd say its on par with my KSP8 but I don't
think it's as good as the Eventide or my older Lexicon when it comes to
pitch shifting, reverbs, and chorus. And while it emulates lots of
classic effects, the emulation of studio versions of those effects are
kind of OK at best. The emulations of guitar type verbs especially
spring and plates are quite good on the Axe-FX. No real complaints
there. The rooms are good to better but not amazing. Once we get to
larger verbs, I find they just do not sound particularly good. They are
fine, but nothing someone is going to hear and go "wow." There is magic
voodoo sauce in the Lexicon and Eventide large verbs. The Lexicon verbs
have this amazing "chorus"y undulation and movement that make them magic
and Eventide verbs with their superiority in pitch shifting are all
about sprinkles, sparkles, and infinite tones. The Axe-FX just isn't
there yet and
the big space type verbs on it have enough parameters that you think you
should be able to get it dialed in but never seem to quite get there.
Eventide just dominates pitch shifting so it's really not a knock on the
Axe-FX, it is what Eventide does best. Their amps and distortions are
largely garbage so there. Chorus is an interesting one. The Axe-FX
emulates lots of vintage chorus pedals very well but not studio ones so
much. I have or have had lots of studio chorus rack units through the
studio and the Axe-FX just doesn't do them very well. It's a fine guitar
chorus for that particular famous guitarist you are trying to emulate
but not for that studio rack you are going after. Same holds for the
delays. You want an emulation of an analog delay pedal? Axe-FX is great.
Want to mimic a 2290, SRE-555, AMS Delay, etc? Nope. The tape delays in
particular I've been disappointed in from both a sound and parameter
quality. I've heard better emulations in the Strymon and Boss pedals
than in the Axe-FX.
The other area that I would like to have more of is in terms of
modulation. The Axe-FX has a decent number of modulators, but they are
more designed with a "what knob do I want to turn" perspective than what
parameter do I want to modulate perspective. I am often frustrated to
find that some parameter isn't available, or that things don't modulate
the way you expect. The way random is implemented also is odd which can
make it frustrating to add "wiggle" or drift to parameters. Further, the
LFO are implemented strangely for time parameters in particular. Time
is modulated by the slope of the curve, not the value of the curve.
Therefore, you can't use a S&H type LFO to modulate time since the
slope of all samples is 0. That's just plain weird. It's things like
this throughout the unit that are frustrating. They seem like edge cases
but I seem to bump into things like this all the time while
programming.<br>
<br>Then we come to my last complaint. Guitar gear knowledge. Because of
copyright and trademark, all the emulations in the Axe-FX are code names
for the actual pieces. This is fine if you are a guitar wonk and know
every pedal and cabinet ever made, but if you aren't, you are going to
be
frustrated. There is so much in the Axe-FX that just trying to find a
basic or general FX you are looking for can be daunting. This is part
because of
this code naming but also because of the modeling. Say you want a
flanger effect, you click on the spot in the chain where you want it and
pick flanger. Now you are presented with a list of flangers. You want a
Cuda, Scion, Pop, Spirit, Starship, or one of the other 31 or so models?
Don't know the implications of those choices? Ok, just pick one and
tweak away. Fiddle around with the model and you will soon realize that
because it is a model of an actual thing, you get all the capabilities
of the model (at least ideally) but you also get the idiosyncrasies and
quirks. You've been fiddling around for a bunch of minutes on this
flanger and
now realize this is not what you are going for, and the model won't get
you where you are trying to go. Pick another flanger model. Repeat. A
day goes by. The depth and accuracy of the Axe-FX models are a double
edged sword. If you know you really want that Electro Harmoix Electric
Mistress Flanger and therefore also know that it's the Electric Mystery
model on the Axe-FX, then all is good. Except, when it isn't. That might
not be the flanger soundvyou are looking for and no amount of tweaking
the
parameters is going to get you where you want to be. Now something like
the Eventide etc. has a more general flanger algo that will get you into
the area or character of the flange you have in mind but not give you a
good emulation of
the actual EH Electric Mistress in particular. Sometimes, an emulation
isn't what you are going for, but a general effect. It a general vs
specific problem and
in the studio, I generally find I want general FX solutions (except when
I don't <span class="moz-smiley-s3" title=";)"></span> ) rather than a
particular emulation. This problem exists throughout the Axe-FX because
of the
guitar focus.
It isn't a bad thing necessarily. If you want those specific emulations
you are gold. There are times though I just want a phaser, flanger, etc.
I don't particularly care which pedal or rack specifically. This is
just a personal workflow thing that clashes with the Axe-FX thinking. I
can go the KSP8, Fireworx, Lexicon, etc. and get what I'm after pretty
easily for that but the Axe-FX makes it less straight forward. Horses
for courses and all...<br>
<br>So, all in all, the Axe-FX is amazing for the very particular things
it
does. Other than a few quibbles about particular models or algos here
and there, it is a staggeringly powerful unit. The editor app is
fantastic and you will not run out of capability on the Axe-FX unless
you are really a super intense FX programmer and need things like VSIG
and like to roll your own from scratch (although the AXE-FX has some
primitive blocks that do allow you to do that). However, as a general
purpose studio FX, it has limitation and problems. Most notably, the
digital IO seriously hampers it to the point that it is essentially a
stereo FX unit and the price point makes it a very expensive one indeed.
If you run your studio sends as analog, this won't be an issue and there
is more than enough analog IO for that. 8 ins and outs is plenty. The
general algorithms are good to OK but not great. The amp and pedal
emulations are great to amazing. It really is an example of a product
that
has been refined and adapted to its primary user base to high degree.
So, if you are not this prime focus user group, there is going to be
friction
with the unit. Personally, I wish the Axe-FX would get a studio makeover
because it could be an amazing studio piece but it definitely would not
be a trivial undertaking. Things like the IO are a fairly trivial
engineering technical change, but the other issues would require Fractal
to engage
heavily with a different user base and to rethink how to bridge
performing guitarists and studio users for a workflow and user
experience perspective through out design and implementation. This would
be a fairly substantial undertaking.
For most people, the FM-3 would be a nearly perfect fit but it also has
minor IO issues. It has a mono and a stereo input. This really should
have been two stereo input sets and two stereo output sets so it could
be run as 2 stereo chains which would make it an amazing live FX unit.
It is a hair under powered to run as two independent stereo units, you
def will run out of DSP but not cripplingly so. I've found for most
general purpose stuff I've been able to get by on it. I typically have
reverb or delay pedals available to augment it so it's been workable.
The FM-3 should be in every synth rig though. I can't think of anything
more competent in the price range despite my IO and DSP quibbles with it
- they are just that quibbles. So, I love what the possibility of the
Axe-FX represents which makes my disappointments without so much more
sharp as there is so much potential left on the table. It's hard to
complain so fiercely about something so great. I have enormous respect
for Fractal and the Axe-FX isn't leaving my rig. My complaints are
largely from a very particular user and use case which admittedly,
Fractal are not trying to fill. That's not a failing on their part. It's
not what the Axe-F was intended for. However, it certainly COULD be
with changes and therein lies the frustrations and why I'm considering
other units to fill in the voids and leave the Ae-F as my stereo amp,
cabinet, stomp box chain thing and not use it as my main general multiFX
in the studio.<br>
<br>James
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>Joost Schuttelaar wrote on 9/20/2022 3:56 AM:
<br><blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">On 20 Sep 2022, at
04:35, James Coplin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:james@ticalun.net"><james@ticalun.net></a> wrote:
<br>
<br><blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">As far as the Axe-FX
III is concerned, it's brilliant, I have one, and it's not going
anywhere thanks to a really great guy on this list <span
class="moz-smiley-s3" title=";)"></span> Everyone should get one and I'm
sure Chicago Tony shares this opinion with me.
<br></blockquote>
<br>I was under the impression that a modern FX like the Axe-FX III does
everything the H8000 can do, and more? Modern beefy chips, et al.
<br>
<br>Or are there still some secret sauce algorithms out there, that are
not covered? It can’t be about patents anymore (like the physical
modelling, autotune & FM stuff in the past)...
<br>
<br></blockquote>
<br></div>
<br>
<br>
<span>Matt Picone wrote on 9/18/2022 11:02 AM:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a9138f36-c3d1-ea21-c816-77be377d17a3@mysticworks.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
I have a lot of experience with the H8000. I was one of the beta
testers during its development. What are you going to do with it? <br>
<br>
<i>(Shameless plug: have you checked out the Axe-Fx III?)</i><br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/17/22 6:55 PM, James Coplin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:ad684df3-ec3e-4a3c-a673-94e297595390@ticalun.net"><meta
http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div dir="auto">Thinking of selling my Kurzweil KSP8 and replacing
it with an Eventide H8000fw. Anyone have first hand knowledge
about the H8000fw? It's a bit of a budget stretch and I don't
want to get it and then dislike it.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">James</div>
<br>
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