They said it wouldn't happen ..

[Marek Szulen]

​What if , reffering to what you've said: "You've got one side panicked
about government spying and the other panicked about terrorists plotting." ​
there are no 2 sides and the terrorists were just made by the government to
have an "excuse" for all these cruel activities?


2013/12/16 Tony Scharf <entropymagnet at noisetheorem.com>

> I didn't watch the video, but I've seen plenty enough.
>
> The news is quite terrifying, but it's not all bad.  I don't know how much
> of it filters over there, but there are a number of court challenges tot he
> surveillance state that are winding their way up the ladder.  This is also
> going to be a major issue in the upcoming elections, aside from the
> economy.
>
> A lot of this infrastructure was put in place by some of the more nasty
> elements of the last president, and then it is widely believed that Obama
> has had to go along with it due to threats related to some sort of
> information the NSA has on him. I don't believe that so much as I do that
> this has all been setup in such secret, that in the name of 'plausible
> deniability' the President was probably kept unaware of it (very easily
> done under the prior president).
>
> Living in Chicago, I can tell you that the cameras are everywhere.  I
> think I read we have more cameras in Chicago than any other city in the
> country. The insidious thing is that you don't even notice them unless you
> really go looking for them (in high crime areas, they make them more
> obvious with lights on them to let you know that 'big brother is
> watching').
>
> legally, there is probably very little that can be done about cameras.
>  Its been long established that privacy rights are only really guaranteed
> when you are in your home or another private setting.   In a public place
> (i.e. the street) you have no reasonable expectation of privacy.  They can
> and always have had the right to watch you however they wanted when you are
> in that public space, only now they have the technology to actually make
> that feasible.
>
> As to the internet, that's another point.  I always just kind of assumed
> *someone* has always been listening.  I mean...who created the internet?
>  It wasn't a group of boy scouts trying get a badge, I'll tell you that.
>  And is the network private or public space?  Where is the 'door' behind
> which you are safe and outside which you are not?
>
> What doesn't help is the level of paranoia and panic on both sides.
>  You've got one side panicked about government spying and the other
> panicked about terrorists plotting.  There is very little room for
> discussion and public debate.  That is what honestly frightens me the most.
>
>
> I've said my piece on this before, but I'll summarize.  I actually don't
> mind so much the surveillance and living my life as a transparent, open
> book if no one else does - including the watchers in government.  The
> question is whether or not we are mature enough to live in a world where
> everyone has access to everyone's information?  Can we live in a world of
> mutually assured disclosure?  I think that prospect, more than any, is what
> scares the governments of the world - that if they can watch US and this
> much access to US, then the technology has gotten good enough for US to
> watch THEM with the same level of detail and rigor.
>
> Honestly, I think that this came to light should be seen as a very
> positive sign that we are moving in the direction of a truly information
> open society.  I know that sounds somewhat terrifying, particularly to my
> European friends who are much more paranoid about privacy than I am.  I
> think my position is practice, if anything.   The genie of information
> transparency is already out of the bottle, and the problem with genies is
> once out, they don't go back in.
>
> My thoughts and opinions on this are constantly evolving.
>
> Tony
>
> >
> > "A Government of Wolves: The Emerging American Police State.
> > We'll discuss the shocking cases of police state brutality upon
> > civilians, even upon children, the elderly and pregnant women.
> >
> > America was once a society that valued individual liberty and
> > privacy. But in recent years it has turned into a culture that
> > has quietly accepted surveillance cameras, police and
> > drug-sniffing dogs in our children's schools, national databases
> > that track our finances and activities, sneak-and-peek searches
> > of our homes without our knowledge or consent, and anti-terrorism
> > laws that turn average Americans into suspects.
> >
> > In short, America has become a lockdown nation, and we are all in
> > danger. Sadly, the police state has gone global and there is no
> > place to go to escape it."
> >
> >
> > --
> > Gert
> >
> > gert van santen
> > www.gertvansanten.nl
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